our board

[TET]

He's definitely kept the manager within a budget, that's kinda my point TET, it's that budget and the player criteria set out by Lawell and the board which is making the manager's job an almost impossible task.

You can only progress a team so far when being forced to work within such tight constraints. If that budget forces the manager to recruit from the lower end of the market then it stands to reason that the kind of players available in that market are of a certain standard. When these signings fail to make an impact people automatically point the finger at the manager because 'he signed them' but

HH TET.

Your bang on in my view Andy.

Without risk their is usually little return. And Lawell knows this for certain.
Any investment that you think has positive return after inflation/cost of cost of capital associated with the risk of that investment should be taken even if it seems involves huge sums of money- no especially when it includes huge sums of money. But only if you have risk assessed it and the net present value comes out positive.

Thats the hard part. Using the correct risk metrics. And one of your key variables is the managers ability to spot investments. ANdf the track record of Rodgers doesnt look good when it comes to value for money.

Now i agree with you that fans have never been interested in the PLC side. Thats exactly the stupid argument Sevco put forward for club and company being two separate things.
r
But they are NOT.

Sadly whether you hate the plc but love the club makes no difference. They are the same thing- one goes with the other. Its a big hierarchy and if the head aint functioning the body is doomed even if the body below is very appealing. And vice versa you cant have a funtioning head without being connected to the body.

Seems our head has become a little detached from the main body but hopefully it can be fixed. At least we havent chopped the head off yet and ended up with the undead body with the worzel gummidge heads over at bitter orange ertangers FC.

Anyway couple the fact that certain leagues get massive influx of satteltite funds and the gross billionaire play field investments, the Scottish league is now not able to compete with these teams, unless we get the same lucky boost from massive funds that just want to have a play trhing in the world of football.

This means most of the positive net present value players that used to be available for a club our size are not there anymore and getting fewer every season. Billionaires have aquired them all and stuck them on the loan farm.

Which means if you want agood player you need to pay a premium and since some clubs have lots of loose cash from big tv deals and billionaire bizareness a wel run club must also pay the premium demanded both on price and wages. And that makes all the best players negative present value investments or in other words throwing moeny down a hole that club can never get back.

The satelite money has now made the market for the best players so toxic that you need to make your own players from the youth available near your club. But in turn that creates uncertainty about winning titles.

SO even the groovy arbitrage system that LAwell had going by being predator club in small pond and therefore premium sales club to the big pond is dying a death.

We can hardly afford average players the wage structures have burst so badly.

Now couple the fact we are heading straight into a turbulent unknown with brexit. It may well turn out better to avaoid the mad market unless something can be spotted that is undervalued.

Rodgers is afootball man. He aint finance man. He has hard time getting the players eyes off the big wage leagues. LAwell is risk averse. the two need to pull together. But can they will they?

Meanwhile criminla fc are extreme risk seeking and seem to have the privy council in theior pocket to help their psychopathic mentality to run amok for the people who like to spew zombie bile.

And they have access to hidden hands and hidden funds that never seems to be worth investigating.


Risk is good if its good risk. Sadly Celtic have only dangerous risk in front of them on player investment front. And the bit that worries me is despite beinga great coach Rodgers has no concept of value. He has no concept of value for price. He came from the subsidised leagues and he always had that safety net with purchases. But if a player cant cut it at Celtic his value nose dives. Whereas a player in subsidised leagues still has the buoyant market keeping his value in range that isnt so dangerous.

The bubble in the football market is so dangerous that it could burst and crush the game completely taking a tsunami load of clubs into the history channel leagues with real rangers FC.

But on the otherhand if you aint naviagting that bubble market you might get left behind with the big wads of cash .

Take in the dutch tulip bubble as an example.

At one time the market for tulips went mental. You buy atulip today and next wekk it worth hundred times more. And for awhile the prices went so mental and everybody was jumping on the wagon. So prices kept getting even more surreal to point one day you could buy couple of tulips for the price of your house then sell it next day for the price of 100 houses. Then pop. yousold your hundred houses bought two tulips and next day market burst and you just sold 100 houses and are left with 2 onions. Yet the guy who swapped the tulip onions now has 100 houses and you have squat.

So you ride the market well you can make a killing when the bubble starts growing but who knows when it pops and suddenly your 10 million french eddies are back to costing 250k and his 50k wages cant be afforded anymore and no other clubs can buy him coz the market burst and killed the bubble blowers.

Tulip story is bizarrely true. The dutch tulip bubble. madness then. MAdness now. The risks are obscene but iof you dont ride the bubble at all you can also get left behind.

Sevco counting on the bubble growing them into safety. And who knows they might be privy to the bubble blowers deep breath capacity. Somebody somewhere always knows when the bubble will burst.

HH Andy

 

[The Shamrock]

Cheers Shamrock, MD

I get TET is being devil's advocate where Lawell & the board are concerned and I agree they have done some great work at the club but when it comes to investment in the team they are not doing nearly enough. Their stubborn refusal to fund it properly and deviate from their rigid transfer policy is holding the club back and limiting it's potential and no board should be allowed to get away with that.

HH.

Celtic are a club that this city and country should appreciate for the money it generates, the employment it provides and for the honest way it manages it's finances.

We could do the same as others do by defrauding Hector, robbing charitable causes, reneging on our debts and spending money we don't have then calling in the administrators.

It's time the Establishment took it's head out of the 17th Century and had a quiet word with itself about how badly the most successful team in the country are treated.

Our board should as well.

 

[Therebelshavewon]

watchin billy connolly the other night he was talking about a time i well remember in the 50s and 60s when our fans sung hyms at games like hail glorious st patrick while the huns churned out their battle songs of pure hate it was this alter boy mentality that cost us dearly as we embraced mediocraty the result was we won nothing times have moved on and we need to embrace the real world if this board fail to meet this new challenge from the f.o.d then they are traitors to everything we stand for

Mate watched th

 

[michael duffy]

Your bang on in my view Andy.

Without risk their is usually little return. And Lawell knows this for certain.
Any investment that you think has positive return after inflation/cost of cost of capital associated with the risk of that investment should be taken even if it seems involves huge sums of money- no especially when it includes huge sums of money. But only if you have risk assessed it and the net present value comes out positive.

Thats the hard part. Using the correct risk metrics. And one of your key variables is the managers ability to spot investments. ANdf the track record of Rodgers doesnt look good when it comes to value for money.

Now i agree with you that fans have never been interested in the PLC side. Thats exactly the stupid argument Sevco put forward for club and company being two separate things.
r
But they are NOT.

Sadly whether you hate the plc but love the club makes no difference. They are the same thing- one goes with the other. Its a big hierarchy and if the head aint functioning the body is doomed even if the body below is very appealing. And vice versa you cant have a funtioning head without being connected to the body.

Seems our head has become a little detached from the main body but hopefully it can be fixed. At least we havent chopped the head off yet and ended up with the undead body with the worzel gummidge heads over at bitter orange ertangers FC.

Anyway couple the fact that certain leagues get massive influx of satteltite funds and the gross billionaire play field investments, the Scottish league is now not able to compete with these teams, unless we get the same lucky boost from massive funds that just want to have a play trhing in the world of football.

This means most of the positive net present value players that used to be available for a club our size are not there anymore and getting fewer every season. Billionaires have aquired them all and stuck them on the loan farm.

Which means if you want agood player you need to pay a premium and since some clubs have lots of loose cash from big tv deals and billionaire bizareness a wel run club must also pay the premium demanded both on price and wages. And that makes all the best players negative present value investments or in other words throwing moeny down a hole that club can never get back.

The satelite money has now made the market for the best players so toxic that you need to make your own players from the youth available near your club. But in turn that creates uncertainty about winning titles.

SO even the groovy arbitrage system that LAwell had going by being predator club in small pond and therefore premium sales club to the big pond is dying a death.

We can hardly afford average players the wage structures have burst so badly.

Now couple the fact we are heading straight into a turbulent unknown with brexit. It may well turn out better to avaoid the mad market unless something can be spotted that is undervalued.

Rodgers is afootball man. He aint finance man. He has hard time getting the players eyes off the big wage leagues. LAwell is risk averse. the two need to pull together. But can they will they?

Meanwhile criminla fc are extreme risk seeking and seem to have the privy council in theior pocket to help their psychopathic mentality to run amok for the people who like to spew zombie bile.

And they have access to hidden hands and hidden funds that never seems to be worth investigating.


Risk is good if its good risk. Sadly Celtic have only dangerous risk in front of them on player investment front. And the bit that worries me is despite beinga great coach Rodgers has no concept of value. He has no concept of value for price. He came from the subsidised leagues and he always had that safety net with purchases. But if a player cant cut it at Celtic his value nose dives. Whereas a player in subsidised leagues still has the buoyant market keeping his value in range that isnt so dangerous.

The bubble in the football market is so dangerous that it could burst and crush the game completely taking a tsunami load of clubs into the history channel leagues with real rangers FC.

But on the otherhand if you aint naviagting that bubble market you might get left behind with the big wads of cash .

Take in the dutch tulip bubble as an example.

At one time the market for tulips went mental. You buy atulip today and next wekk it worth hundred times more. And for awhile the prices went so mental and everybody was jumping on the wagon. So prices kept getting even more surreal to point one day you could buy couple of tulips for the price of your house then sell it next day for the price of 100 houses. Then pop. yousold your hundred houses bought two tulips and next day market burst and you just sold 100 houses and are left with 2 onions. Yet the guy who swapped the tulip onions now has 100 houses and you have squat.

So you ride the market well you can make a killing when the bubble starts growing but who knows when it pops and suddenly your 10 million french eddies are back to costing 250k and his 50k wages cant be afforded anymore and no other clubs can buy him coz the market burst and killed the bubble blowers.

Tulip story is bizarrely true. The dutch tulip bubble. madness then. MAdness now. The risks are obscene but iof you dont ride the bubble at all you can also get left behind.

Sevco counting on the bubble growing them into safety. And who knows they might be privy to the bubble blowers deep breath capacity. Somebody somewhere always knows when the bubble will burst.

HH Andy

great post yet again TET,ye can't throw good money after bad,scoutin has been our problem, £101 million turnover £87 million operatin costs, worryin HH!

 

[Shadow2]

Your bang on in my view Andy.

Without risk their is usually little return. And Lawell knows this for certain.
Any investment that you think has positive return after inflation/cost of cost of capital associated with the risk of that investment should be taken even if it seems involves huge sums of money- no especially when it includes huge sums of money. But only if you have risk assessed it and the net present value comes out positive.

Thats the hard part. Using the correct risk metrics. And one of your key variables is the managers ability to spot investments. ANdf the track record of Rodgers doesnt look good when it comes to value for money.

Now i agree with you that fans have never been interested in the PLC side. Thats exactly the stupid argument Sevco put forward for club and company being two separate things.
r
But they are NOT.

Sadly whether you hate the plc but love the club makes no difference. They are the same thing- one goes with the other. Its a big hierarchy and if the head aint functioning the body is doomed even if the body below is very appealing. And vice versa you cant have a funtioning head without being connected to the body.

Seems our head has become a little detached from the main body but hopefully it can be fixed. At least we havent chopped the head off yet and ended up with the undead body with the worzel gummidge heads over at bitter orange ertangers FC.

Anyway couple the fact that certain leagues get massive influx of satteltite funds and the gross billionaire play field investments, the Scottish league is now not able to compete with these teams, unless we get the same lucky boost from massive funds that just want to have a play trhing in the world of football.

This means most of the positive net present value players that used to be available for a club our size are not there anymore and getting fewer every season. Billionaires have aquired them all and stuck them on the loan farm.

Which means if you want agood player you need to pay a premium and since some clubs have lots of loose cash from big tv deals and billionaire bizareness a wel run club must also pay the premium demanded both on price and wages. And that makes all the best players negative present value investments or in other words throwing moeny down a hole that club can never get back.

The satelite money has now made the market for the best players so toxic that you need to make your own players from the youth available near your club. But in turn that creates uncertainty about winning titles.

SO even the groovy arbitrage system that LAwell had going by being predator club in small pond and therefore premium sales club to the big pond is dying a death.

We can hardly afford average players the wage structures have burst so badly.

Now couple the fact we are heading straight into a turbulent unknown with brexit. It may well turn out better to avaoid the mad market unless something can be spotted that is undervalued.

Rodgers is afootball man. He aint finance man. He has hard time getting the players eyes off the big wage leagues. LAwell is risk averse. the two need to pull together. But can they will they?

Meanwhile criminla fc are extreme risk seeking and seem to have the privy council in theior pocket to help their psychopathic mentality to run amok for the people who like to spew zombie bile.

And they have access to hidden hands and hidden funds that never seems to be worth investigating.


Risk is good if its good risk. Sadly Celtic have only dangerous risk in front of them on player investment front. And the bit that worries me is despite beinga great coach Rodgers has no concept of value. He has no concept of value for price. He came from the subsidised leagues and he always had that safety net with purchases. But if a player cant cut it at Celtic his value nose dives. Whereas a player in subsidised leagues still has the buoyant market keeping his value in range that isnt so dangerous.

The bubble in the football market is so dangerous that it could burst and crush the game completely taking a tsunami load of clubs into the history channel leagues with real rangers FC.

But on the otherhand if you aint naviagting that bubble market you might get left behind with the big wads of cash .

Take in the dutch tulip bubble as an example.

At one time the market for tulips went mental. You buy atulip today and next wekk it worth hundred times more. And for awhile the prices went so mental and everybody was jumping on the wagon. So prices kept getting even more surreal to point one day you could buy couple of tulips for the price of your house then sell it next day for the price of 100 houses. Then pop. yousold your hundred houses bought two tulips and next day market burst and you just sold 100 houses and are left with 2 onions. Yet the guy who swapped the tulip onions now has 100 houses and you have squat.

So you ride the market well you can make a killing when the bubble starts growing but who knows when it pops and suddenly your 10 million french eddies are back to costing 250k and his 50k wages cant be afforded anymore and no other clubs can buy him coz the market burst and killed the bubble blowers.

Tulip story is bizarrely true. The dutch tulip bubble. madness then. MAdness now. The risks are obscene but iof you dont ride the bubble at all you can also get left behind.

Sevco counting on the bubble growing them into safety. And who knows they might be privy to the bubble blowers deep breath capacity. Somebody somewhere always knows when the bubble will burst.

HH Andy

Believe me TET what I said at the end of my post about being a Celtic Football Club supporter and not a Celtic PLC supporter was not me trying to separate club and company, as I like yourself and many others, have spent the last 6 years trying to explain to witless Sevvies that the club and company are one in the same. I was making the point that as much as it's pleasing to see Lawell and the board secure big money sponsorship deals, reveal their plans for hotels and museums and forge partnerships with businesses far and wide what matters most to me is what the team do on the pitch and how we can improve what we do on the pitch. Everything we do including what I just mentioned should be geared towards that aim, the business side of the club is there to sustain the footballing side and I believe Lawell and our board have flipped that on it's head.

I don't turn up at Celtic Park every second week to cheer on a sponsorship deal with Dafabet and neither will I turn up to cheer on a hotel or a museum. If they generate money that allows for greater investment in the team then that's great, if they don't then they mean the sum total of hee haw.

I agree the transfer market is difficult but other clubs in similar circumstances to our own manage just fine and many of them seem more capable of building a better and more sustainable squad of players than we do, they just do it by employing different strategies and being more flexible in how they operate in the market. This is mainly what I'm driving at, you don't draw up a strategy and stick to it forevermore you should always be looking to build and improve on it and this is where Lawell and the board seem to fall by the wayside imo.

Once again it's been great debating with you TET and I look forward to more of the same in the future.

HH mate