If Sevco can get around Fair Play rules by “funding from within”, why can’t desmind do the same?

[Theverdict1]

They are borrowing money to fund their fight. It seems that’s ok. Why doesn’t Dermot do the same and loan us £50m to be repaid over ten years, or with shares to trump them?

If he did and we achieved CL qualification for the next few years, then we pay him back quicker.

If reports are true thstvhevus a billionaire why not? Rich Sevconians are putting money in to keep the lights on and buy players, why not us?

It’s not as if we won’t pay it back, after all, we aren’t debt cheats. Givechim 4% interest even, if he thinks he doesn’t have enough money. But, I think this is an option for us to do the same.

 

[michael duffy]

the mini huns have a "mystery benefactor" as well, strange eh.....

 

[Theverdict1]

the mini huns have a "mystery benefactor" as well, strange eh.....

Who it is doesn’t bother me. The fact they are funding a fight doesn’t bother me, the fact we don’t use the same tactic does. Eventually they will want their money back. We keep beating them they can’t do that. An accumulation of debt with no return for them is my hope. We secure CL money for the next 3 years, their bubble bursts. They are pulling out all the stops and going all in. Let’s call them on that with a better hand and every penny they borrowed has achieved fuck all but a mountain of debt,

They can’t do this every year. They know they need to win the league and get CL money to balance them.

We up the stakes short term they crash. That would be my strategy.

 

[dmac]

They story goes that the manager s wages are being paid by a sponsor and not the club might be true who knows but the money they are spending is unsustainable

 

[Theverdict1]

They story goes that the manager s wages are being paid by a sponsor and not the club might be true who knows but the money they are spending is unsustainable

Exactly. They are all in. Up the stakes and call them. Then mop up the CL money.

 

[Lemon]

Well surely this mystery benefactor has to be shown in accounts. Is it ok if it is the orange order, Russian gangster or uda etc? I think we do need to know.

 

[TET]

They are borrowing money to fund their fight. It seems that’s ok. Why doesn’t Dermot do the same and loan us £50m to be repaid over ten years, or with shares to trump them?

If he did and we achieved CL qualification for the next few years, then we pay him back quicker.

If reports are true thstvhevus a billionaire why not? Rich Sevconians are putting money in to keep the lights on and buy players, why not us?

It’s not as if we won’t pay it back, after all, we aren’t debt cheats. Givechim 4% interest even, if he thinks he doesn’t have enough money. But, I think this is an option for us to do the same.

I dont think its about the lack of investment.

Its the lack of value added investemnt.

If there were players who could be bought who are better than what we have and the the return on investment is risk assesed then the money would be availble to Celtic no problems.

To me Sevco are not investing they are playing lottery or they are being funded by someone who either has access to massive funds that are clandestine or perhaps even illegal.

Rangers are dead. They couldnt care less if Sevco die. If they manage to bankrupt Celtic in the process then they have won a watch.

If they are unethical should Celtic become unethical to stay ahead of the curve?

The market for fooabll players is toxic at the present moment?

What do I mean by that.

The premium to get quality players is such that you automatically lose money unless the bubble continues indefinately. Depending on what league stucture a player is in will demand what kind of premium that player can get ontop of his intrinsic fundamental value (the actual value that player adds to the business)

If you pay crazy money for aplayer then you have to manage to sell that bloke later for equally crazy pro rata price or more for that investment to be viable.

Ifg its not possible to make money from the player it should never be sanctioned unless you have lots of money you can afford to throw down the hole.

Subsidised leagues can afford crazy wage structures which means if you buy a player that is wanted by that league you must at least compete with their wages. If not the player aint coming.

And if you try to compete with teams subisised to 100s millions each year you need a sugar daddy a criminal enterprise or somehow access to subisised cash from somewhere else in order to compete with the acquisation or holding onto top players.

And thats the problem for Scottish clubs, all Scottish clubs, more so for every club other than Celtic.

If Sevco have access to subsidesed funds that are hidden form the market then theyhave something we dont have.

Whether its sustainable is their problem. Whether its legal is their problem.

I for one dont want Celtic to become unsustainable in order to be ahead of the horde.

I think the bubble will eventually burst with the massive subsidy. the smaller countries will eventually stop watching their local clubs if they have been marketed out of competition by tv companies.

And these big clubs will have nowhere to get the players who can keep the entertainment levels sustainable.

The subsidy by satelite for outstrips the cash from gate receipts presently. So lots of big clubs traditionally are suffering lack of quality despite being big clubs.

This in turn will eventually turn off the local fans from their clubs and football will die.

So the subsidy form satelitte if its not spread out across the entire football economy will instead of making it mnore competitive much less competitive and much less investable. except to scmmers and spivs who want to asset strip.

Which is the model that killed the Huns
And its the model that will kill its spawn in time.

Its not sustainable.
It hemourages money.
So unless there is scam somewhere for investors it will end.

 

[michael duffy]

debt currently £40 mill approx,soft loans £18 mill approx,TOP £11 mill,court costs,mike ashley,close brothers! a wee soft loan fae DD kills them.

 

[JamSam67]

Who it is doesn’t bother me. The fact they are funding a fight doesn’t bother me, the fact we don’t use the same tactic does. Eventually they will want their money back. We keep beating them they can’t do that. An accumulation of debt with no return for them is my hope. We secure CL money for the next 3 years, their bubble bursts. They are pulling out all the stops and going all in. Let’s call them on that with a better hand and every penny they borrowed has achieved fuck all but a mountain of debt,

They can’t do this every year. They know they need to win the league and get CL money to balance them.

We up the stakes short term they crash. That would be my strategy.

Totally agree with you, get DD to put some money into the club. Give him a bigger share in the club then watch the 6 year olds get a serious case of The shits, as we sprint of into the 10sets. Mon the Hoops.

HH

 

[Theverdict1]

I dont think its about the lack of investment.

Its the lack of value added investemnt.

If there were players who could be bought who are better than what we have and the the return on investment is risk assesed then the money would be availble to Celtic no problems.

To me Sevco are not investing they are playing lottery or they are being funded by someone who either has access to massive funds that are clandestine or perhaps even illegal.

Rangers are dead. They couldnt care less if Sevco die. If they manage to bankrupt Celtic in the process then they have won a watch.

If they are unethical should Celtic become unethical to stay ahead of the curve?

The market for fooabll players is toxic at the present moment?

What do I mean by that.

The premium to get quality players is such that you automatically lose money unless the bubble continues indefinately. Depending on what league stucture a player is in will demand what kind of premium that player can get ontop of his intrinsic fundamental value (the actual value that player adds to the business)

If you pay crazy money for aplayer then you have to manage to sell that bloke later for equally crazy pro rata price or more for that investment to be viable.

Ifg its not possible to make money from the player it should never be sanctioned unless you have lots of money you can afford to throw down the hole.

Subsidised leagues can afford crazy wage structures which means if you buy a player that is wanted by that league you must at least compete with their wages. If not the player aint coming.

And if you try to compete with teams subisised to 100s millions each year you need a sugar daddy a criminal enterprise or somehow access to subisised cash from somewhere else in order to compete with the acquisation or holding onto top players.

And thats the problem for Scottish clubs, all Scottish clubs, more so for every club other than Celtic.

If Sevco have access to subsidesed funds that are hidden form the market then theyhave something we dont have.

Whether its sustainable is their problem. Whether its legal is their problem.

I for one dont want Celtic to become unsustainable in order to be ahead of the horde.

I think the bubble will eventually burst with the massive subsidy. the smaller countries will eventually stop watching their local clubs if they have been marketed out of competition by tv companies.

And these big clubs will have nowhere to get the players who can keep the entertainment levels sustainable.

The subsidy by satelite for outstrips the cash from gate receipts presently. So lots of big clubs traditionally are suffering lack of quality despite being big clubs.

This in turn will eventually turn off the local fans from their clubs and football will die.

So the subsidy form satelitte if its not spread out across the entire football economy will instead of making it mnore competitive much less competitive and much less investable. except to scmmers and spivs who want to asset strip.

Which is the model that killed the Huns
And its the model that will kill its spawn in time.

Its not sustainable.
It hemourages money.
So unless there is scam somewhere for investors it will end.

I agree, so why not accelerate that process.

 

[Theverdict1]

If we spend an extra £30m on quality players, their value will increase. We win the league and secure £60m in the summer when we qualify.

It allows us to take on Valencia and who knows, beat them and progress recoups another few million.

Win the Treble and all Sevco’s borrowing returns nothing.

They are all in. The most vulnerable position to be in. Call them after we strengthen our hand. They are there to be fucked senseless. Let’s do it.

 

[Millsy]

Sevco is a player in a Poker game - they have a poor hand , so to disguise it they are going ''all in '' to try to win the pot . Unfortunately if someone with a better hand ( Celtic ) ''sees'' them , they are f*cked !

 

[TET]

If we spend an extra £30m on quality players, their value will increase. We win the league and secure £60m in the summer when we qualify.

It allows us to take on Valencia and who knows, beatbthemmand orogress recoups anithervfew million.

Win the Treble and all Sevco’s borrowing returns nothing.

They are all in. The most vulnerable position to be in. Call them after we strengthen our hand. They are there to be fucked senseless. Let’s do it.

Thats missunderstanding the money side things.

First our op expenses this season were 87 million.

Now assuming that is same next season our income is unlikely to 100 million and the base income without europe is around 55million if we max it out. Depending on whether we qualify for CL or EL defines what we add to that base 55million. This season its hard to work out if we will get over the 87 million mark by getting this far in europe. SO we might already be hitting a loss next season.

Spending the 30 million+ that we have sounds great but for 30 miliion we might get 3 players who walk into our first team. But their wages might need to be 40k to get them to join. lets call that basic of 2m each plus add on of 3million each if they have very succesful season reaching champions league. Thats an increas of 15 million on operation costs. Plaus they might force the club to increase the wages of the rest of the squad to bring them up to 5 million per season if they qualify for champions league.

And suddenly our op costs are 100 million per season but still only base income of 50 million. SO irt beocmes imperative that we get into champions league every seaosn just to balnce the books. And at the end of the day that MSM press announcement of 60 million champions league isnt profit its actually absolutely necessary fvor the club to maintain solvency.

Does any of that sound familiar?

Thats exaclty the mindset of the horde. The see income as profit and forget all about the costs of that income. And its the costs of the income that are the problem.

Celtic have cash to buy today.

But they are near max op costs.

So they need to sell dead wood or carry those dead wood and destroy the income the might have called profits.

So the 40 million champions league money doesnt come as free spending cash unless your op costs are covered by base income.

Our base income is around 55million

Right now our op costs are 87 million

So without champions league money we need to cut costs or take a hit.
And the 30 million for new players sounds loevely but we are already 30 million above base costs where wouyld we be with these new players.

You see why that 50+ million subsidy from satelitte tv deals that certain leagues is killing our top wage players.

Example

Sutton when we had him was one of the best paid players in the world
To sign sutton today he would command somewhere in region of 500K per week thats how ludicrous the market has gone.

Larsson would probably be commanding around the same.

SO their basic wage alone would be our entire base income.

Did you know at one time Sutton was the highest paid player in europe?

The going rate for a Bobo blade today is around 100k per week.

Thats probably not far off what boyata should be expecting beinga Belgian international.

We cant afford those kind of wages even after bonuses.

So we cant afford the kind of players that would have been normal 20 years ago.

Jimmy johnston would have been a 1 million per week player today. And every one of the lisbon lions probaly could command 500K as European cup winners.

Thats how ludicrous the wages have gone in the game.

When Man Utd won the champions league in 1999 Rangers wages were higher than theirs.

Its obsecenely broken.

Really ordinary players like Steven Davis command 60K basic wages in southhampton.

Imagine how much Laudrup or gazza would command today.

Its insane.

And 30 million on players sounds a lot. But its buttons and if its not used wisely easily gone down the hole.

 

[The Shamrock]

No one at the club cares about whether or not they can sustain the level of spending that we're seeing and will not be bothered about ending up in administration. They keep being allowed to rip up the rule books and are getting away with it.

 

[Benignus]

Well surely this mystery benefactor has to be shown in accounts. Is it ok if it is the orange order, Russian gangster or uda etc? I think we do need to know.

Thankfully Lemon from what I was reading last year the OO are in up to there neck in debt also, dwindling numbers, marches getting smaller every year, obviously share the same financial advisers as sevco, is the clock ticking for them also, here's hoping mate.

 

[The Shamrock]

Thats missunderstanding the money side things.

First our op expenses this season were 87 million.

Now assuming that is same next season our income is unlikely to 100 million and the base income without europe is around 55million if we max it out. Depending on whether we qualify for CL or EL defines what we add to that base 55million. This season its hard to work out if we will get over the 87 million mark by getting this far in europe. SO we might already be hitting a loss next season.

Spending the 30 million+ that we have sounds great but for 30 miliion we might get 3 players who walk into our first team. But their wages might need to be 40k to get them to join. lets call that basic of 2m each plus add on of 3million each if they have very succesful season reaching champions league. Thats an increas of 15 million on operation costs. Plaus they might force the club to increase the wages of the rest of the squad to bring them up to 5 million per season if they qualify for champions league.

And suddenly our op costs are 100 million per season but still only base income of 50 million. SO irt beocmes imperative that we get into champions league every seaosn just to balnce the books. And at the end of the day that MSM press announcement of 60 million champions league isnt profit its actually absolutely necessary fvor the club to maintain solvency.

Does any of that sound familiar?

Thats exaclty the mindset of the horde. The see income as profit and forget all about the costs of that income. And its the costs of the income that are the problem.

Celtic have cash to buy today.

But they are near max op costs.

So they need to sell dead wood or carry those dead wood and destroy the income the might have called profits.

So the 40 million champions league money doesnt come as free spending cash unless your op costs are covered by base income.

Our base income is around 55million

Right now our op costs are 87 million

So without champions league money we need to cut costs or take a hit.
And the 30 million for new players sounds loevely but we are already 30 million above base costs where wouyld we be with these new players.

You see why that 50+ million subsidy from satelitte tv deals that certain leagues is killing our top wage players.

Example

Sutton when we had him was one of the best paid players in the world
To sign sutton today he would command somewhere in region of 500K per week thats how ludicrous the market has gone.

Larsson would probably be commanding around the same.

SO their basic wage alone would be our entire base income.

Did you know at one time Sutton was the highest paid player in europe?

The going rate for a Bobo blade today is around 100k per week.

Thats probably not far off what boyata should be expecting beinga Belgian international.

We cant afford those kind of wages even after bonuses.

So we cant afford the kind of players that would have been normal 20 years ago.

Jimmy johnston would have been a 1 million per week player today. And every one of the lisbon lions probaly could command 500K as European cup winners.

Thats how ludicrous the wages have gone in the game.

When Man Utd won the champions league in 1999 Rangers wages were higher than theirs.

Its obsecenely broken.

Really ordinary players like Steven Davis command 60K basic wages in southhampton.

Imagine how much Laudrup or gazza would command today.

Its insane.

And 30 million on players sounds a lot. But its buttons and if its not used wisely easily gone down the hole.

Watching football focus yesterday even the pundits were laughing at the madness of the money being paid to players who are only average and they were amazed at the £19m Bournemouth paid for Solanke.

 

[michael duffy]

Thats missunderstanding the money side things.

First our op expenses this season were 87 million.

Now assuming that is same next season our income is unlikely to 100 million and the base income without europe is around 55million if we max it out. Depending on whether we qualify for CL or EL defines what we add to that base 55million. This season its hard to work out if we will get over the 87 million mark by getting this far in europe. SO we might already be hitting a loss next season.

Spending the 30 million+ that we have sounds great but for 30 miliion we might get 3 players who walk into our first team. But their wages might need to be 40k to get them to join. lets call that basic of 2m each plus add on of 3million each if they have very succesful season reaching champions league. Thats an increas of 15 million on operation costs. Plaus they might force the club to increase the wages of the rest of the squad to bring them up to 5 million per season if they qualify for champions league.

And suddenly our op costs are 100 million per season but still only base income of 50 million. SO irt beocmes imperative that we get into champions league every seaosn just to balnce the books. And at the end of the day that MSM press announcement of 60 million champions league isnt profit its actually absolutely necessary fvor the club to maintain solvency.

Does any of that sound familiar?

Thats exaclty the mindset of the horde. The see income as profit and forget all about the costs of that income. And its the costs of the income that are the problem.

Celtic have cash to buy today.

But they are near max op costs.

So they need to sell dead wood or carry those dead wood and destroy the income the might have called profits.

So the 40 million champions league money doesnt come as free spending cash unless your op costs are covered by base income.

Our base income is around 55million

Right now our op costs are 87 million

So without champions league money we need to cut costs or take a hit.
And the 30 million for new players sounds loevely but we are already 30 million above base costs where wouyld we be with these new players.

You see why that 50+ million subsidy from satelitte tv deals that certain leagues is killing our top wage players.

Example

Sutton when we had him was one of the best paid players in the world
To sign sutton today he would command somewhere in region of 500K per week thats how ludicrous the market has gone.

Larsson would probably be commanding around the same.

SO their basic wage alone would be our entire base income.

Did you know at one time Sutton was the highest paid player in europe?

The going rate for a Bobo blade today is around 100k per week.

Thats probably not far off what boyata should be expecting beinga Belgian international.

We cant afford those kind of wages even after bonuses.

So we cant afford the kind of players that would have been normal 20 years ago.

Jimmy johnston would have been a 1 million per week player today. And every one of the lisbon lions probaly could command 500K as European cup winners.

Thats how ludicrous the wages have gone in the game.

When Man Utd won the champions league in 1999 Rangers wages were higher than theirs.

Its obsecenely broken.

Really ordinary players like Steven Davis command 60K basic wages in southhampton.

Imagine how much Laudrup or gazza would command today.

Its insane.

And 30 million on players sounds a lot. But its buttons and if its not used wisely easily gone down the hole.

yuv jist harshed ma mellow TET! wi those cold hard facts!

 

[Theverdict1]

yuv jist harshed ma mellow TET! wi those cold hard facts!

We need to win the league to secure CL money. If we don’t get the players in we could fail. Then we have those operating costs and not the cash flow to meet them.

If we take a loan related over five years we get the players. The players values rise if we buy quality. The alternative is tajeca Chance their last roll of the dice works and we are in an unsustainable financial position. Not doing anything is a greater risk.

Borrowing is how companies grow. Not too much, but enough to allow growth greater than what you borrowed.

If they win the league and we fail to up the ante then they are back. We would still have sskesbke assets in players and a rise in quality in the squad helps us win and spread the risk over five years.

This is how you get better. To stand still will see ya go back. Our operating costs demand we secure higher financial return or we crash. A soft loan wisely spent kills them and moved us forward.

Unless we already have the resources to buy the quality we need, this option should be looked at.

 

[michael duffy]

ah wise man once said "if you want to make a small fortune from football,start off with a large fortune!"

 

[TET]

We need to win the league to secure CL money. If we don’t get the players in we could fail. Then we have those operating costs and not the cash flow to meet them.

If we take a loan related over five years we get the players. The players values rise if we buy quality. The alternative is tajeca Chance their last roll of the dice works and we are in an unsustainable financial position. Not doing anything is a greater risk.

Borrowing is how companies grow. Not too much, but enough to allow growth greater than what you borrowed.

If they win the league and we fail to up the ante then they are back. We would still have sskesbke assets in players and a rise in quality in the squad helps us win and spread the risk over five years.

This is how you get better. To stand still will see ya go back. Our operating costs demand we secure higher financial return or we crash. A soft loan wisely spent kills them and moved us forward.

Unless we already have the resources to buy the quality we need, this option should be looked at.

You assume the prices of players will increase. But thats not certain. Its isnt likely that more moeny than present can be poured into football. If anything the risks are so great that the bubble could burst at any moment.

Also our market is much less secure than subsiidised leagues. If we buy a guy from EPL he will very unlikley sell from us for more than we bought him unless he is coming at deep discount. And then if he deeply discounted wouldnt he be a risk that he aint the grade?

Lets say we had 200 million for harry Kane

Say he comes her sets world on fire. Do you think teams will pay 300m to get him?

I doubt they would because his current 200million is way above his actual value added and the reason he can be held by spurs is they can afford his wages whereas we cant afford his wage sand probably need to punt him at discount to get him off the wage bill even though we want to keep him.

Say man utd offer tierney 200k pw and 20 million for him. We cant afford his wages he might want to stay but then we would be ripping him off cause he really should be earning 200k+ if players of his standard get that amount.

And alsthopugh he would be worth 60m illion at Man Utd he will only ever be a 20-30 m player at us.